"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye"
Let me preface by saying this to my Polish friends. Your command of English is astonishing. You either know the expression I used in the subject line, or will figure out what it means. All I wanted to do was work in the word "games" into a catchy phrase.
Games. Do we need them?
Here's why I think we do.
Many write in their bio that they are here to improve their photography. I don't think that would be in my top 5 reasons for joining. I still have to think what my reasons are, but I am enjoying myself and that's what matters.
I am curious how those who want to improve feel Tookapic is helping them. Mainly, we get -- and gladly give -- encouragement. We may choose not to "Like" an okay photo, that's as harsh a criticism that I have seen given or gave myself. And I am not seeing any advice on improvement being given in comments -- possibly because that can be seen as a criticism.
Maybe it's not part of Tookapic's mission. I am only bringing it up because of the "want to learn and improve" statements in bios I have seen.
In my experience, the easiest way to give and receive critique without negativity is in the form of games.
My next question is: if Tookapic wants to play, what are your favorite photo games? I can also propose one or two and see how it goes.
Rafal As @Paweł wrote in my opinion TP is more inspiration not an improvement (or improvement by inspiration). I got some ideas from other people, helped some of them in their problems (sometimes out of Tookapic - they have blogs, facebook sites, etc). Sometimes just exif infos is enough to increase the skill. Some people write how it was done (in example "Dym 3").
ponzu You guys are right, and Tookapic makes us improve implicitly. Also @Rafal makes a good point about improving through looking at others' photos. Somehow, I was thinking more about taking photos and finding out what is wrong with them, so next time I can take a better one. That's only one avenue for improvement, but to me, the most important one. When I had to learn .NET web services in one day 10 or so years ago, I started by reading a book. My boss, a Bulgarian gentleman, shared a saying from his native country with me. It went: if one could learn a skill by looking, then the dog would make the best butcher. He wanted me to sit and write an app that took in parameters such as dimensions, weight and zip code, and then called the public UPS web service to calculate the shipping cost. It worked.
But I digress.
I think I overplayed my hand (another gaming reference for you!) and mixed my message. In the process, I may have lost my original thought and intent.
My thinking this morning went as follows:
1. We rarely give or receive constructive criticism. (Would you agree?)
2. Why is that? Doesn't really matter why, we are basically a very feel-good community and we don't want to ruin that.
3. I want to get more comments on my photos (don't you?) and I specifically want people to tell me what they like and don't like about my photos (wouldn't you?).
4. How can I encourage people to leave more, and more specific comments on my photos if it is not part of Tookapic culture at the moment? By starting a thread and asking.
5. What can we do to make people feel more free about requesting and offering critique? A "naked" thread that says "Please give critique on my photos" will feel wrong. But a thread that says "Here's a game we are going to play: post a photo, anyone can comment on your photo and having done so, can post their own photo in the thread, then the next person comments on their photo, as well as your photo, and so on." Then I am not selfishly and arrogantly asking for critiques of my photos or photo only, I am establishing a framework that accommodates everyone -- at least everyone who wants to hear more than just "good job" and "great pic" and who wants to practice putting their own impressions of a photo in concrete terms of praise or criticism.
I brought up games, because that's my background (on Flickr).
What probably came out wrong in my post, and what I want to clarify are two things.
One, Tookapic can, and does, help one improve in many other ways other than critique-based games.
Two, games are not just for learning through critique. They are also for fun.
I should have written a shorter and clearer message asking if Tookapic wants to play. Below I will describe a few games we have played on Flickr. We can discuss which fits best with Tookapic culture and technical capabilities of the platform. For example, not being able to post a photo in a topic will make some of the games I have in mind difficult, but not impossible.
vividcolourfabric When it comes to a constructive criticism - "once upon a time" there was something like that on tookapic. If you had had a Hero sub, you'd have checked a box and your photo would have been placed in a Critic subpage. But I guess it didn't go along with the new "carrot, not a stick" politics. If I'm wrong, correct me.
Marcin K. It was not a policy problem. There were more problems with just getting a critique. It didn't work in a simple "asking for critique" way.
More reading:
tookapic.com/talks/483-about-c...
ponzu Thank you for the background information
ponzu It was hard to believe that a vibrant photo community such as Tookapic has not looked into generating more CC. Now I see it has.
ponzu Game 1. Probably the most popular and simplest game to explain and to play, and no feelings ever get hurt. "Best photo from the person above you".
We can start we @Paweł . We kind of have to, don't we? Let's say I browse his project, clicking "Load more..." a reasonable number of times. I am not going to see all his photos, but let's suppose that as he shoots and posts more, his best photos are among the more recent ones. Finally, I decide that "Old bus" is as good as anything I saw from him, so I pick it and post it in the game thread with the comment:
"Such a dynamic photo with so few moving elements. Great use of color. Red color spot always wins, as they told me. The arrows and lines are totally predicting the trajectory of the bus and lead the eye from the bus' known position to its expected destination. And all this in a challenging vertical orientation, which in this case represents the view out of a window perfectly."
Having posted this, I become "the person above you". So the next volunteer poster has to extend the same courtesy to me. A bit of a "pay it forward" concept. You invest your time in looking over and thinking about someone's project with the expectation that this effort will be returned to you by the next person.
Of course, at some point all active Tookapickers, who are willing to play, will have made their mark, and the game may slow down. At which time it will be perfectly acceptable and advisable for someone who has already made a move to go again, and it should not be in the same order, because you don't want to be reviewing the same person again.
I have never seen or played the game "Worst photo from the person above you" and I am not suggesting we try it, although "The best and worst photos from the person above you" sounds like a very intriguing concept. I think I know what my worst photos are, and I usually have a good explanation, so my feelings definitely would not be hurt. Still, we can just start with the best and see how that goes.
If I am to start such thread, @Paweł, should we have a subject prefix such as "GAME: "? And are there any Talks features I am not thinking about that can be helpful in making these games easier/more fun to play?
ponzu Please note, that this game falls in the "just for fun" category, it has nothing to do with constructive criticism (CC). I will describe some CC-driven games below. I thought I'd start with something uncontroversial.
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Paweł Kadysz In my opinion, it's simply impossible not to improve by practicing every day. Ansel Adams once said: "Twelve significant photographs in any one year is a good crop." It's much easier to get those 12 significant photos when you actually shoot every single day.
That's one way tookapic helps you improve. Second is inspiration. Number of professional photographers (who actually make living from photography) on tookapic is close to 0. Seeing all those awesome pics and knowing that they were taken by amateurs is inspiring. And people are happy to share their setup, or techniques when you ask them in a comment.
As for photography games - I don't think I've ever played one. I love video games and consider myself a gamer. Can you tell us more about those photography games?