Constructive Feedback page on Tookapic
Due to a lot of requests for this we brought it back today. To request constructive feedback on your photo, tag it with "feedbackplease" tag.
The page can be found here.
gerlos Thanks!
Jakub Szymański cool, I hope it will do the work
jokele I've just found a shortcut at the feed page tookapic.com/feed
Aga Ka great, thanks! :)
Magda Parkitna superb!
NatZ Thanks!
jazzie
One thing I would like to mention here is that I observe that good, interesting pics are getting more feedbacks than boring or wallflowerish ones. This is not how it is supposed to be, because from feedbacks to 'bad' pics you can learn most!
Of course it is hard to tell somebody that you don't like his/her image very much, and so first I didn't want to write anything to anybody. But yesterday I decided to act in the cc page as I do in my job as an art teacher: never mention bad things only, because there is something good in every single picture! And yes, it takes more time to write a hard feedback than a nice one, but I think it is worth it. You can learn extremely much about your own perception of photography if you have to find (kind) words for what you don't like :)
ponzu I think it is completely understandable. For two reasons. One, we don't feel like being harsh because Tookapic has a culture of positive reinforcement and unconditional support. Until Feedback feature was added, it was understood that we either write something nice or nothing at all. Part of this culture stems from the fact that we all feel like @Paweł's ambassadors, trying to grow membership, keep the site viable, make it profitable, etc. So it will take a little bit of time to change (or enhance) this culture. Two, it is really hard to have any thoughts on a boring or wallflowerish photo (when you get a chance, please share an example of what you consider a wallflowerish photo, I feel like I almost know what you mean). When there are no thoughts, you have to force yourself to have thoughts, which can lead to a phony or meaningless critique. I ended up just writing on one photo that I have no thoughts on it. That, in itself, should be valuable information to the author. Or not.
I am trying to think... If I submitted a boring photo for critique... Would I rather hear nothing, or hear that it's boring? I think people who submit boring photos know, on some level, that the photos are boring. They are just not able to produce anything more interesting at this moment -- either due to lack of skill, vision or opportunity. When I make boring photos, it can be any of those reasons. I still take those photos. Some call it doing visual push-ups. digital-photography-school.com... I think people submitting boring photos are hoping that someone will find something interesting in them that can be used as an encouragement to go on. I can think of few "better" ways to discourage a photographer than telling him/her that their photos are boring. Few will take this as a challenge, many will give up. If I tell someone they posted a boring photo to the critique feed, I hope I can quickly find another of their photos that is not boring. Otherwise, I will consider holding my tongue.
But a great post and great thoughts, thank you!
jazzie I know exactly what you mean. Therefor I generally won't say 'your pic is boring!' but I'll make some suggestions on how I personally would try to photograph the subject (and this is by the way the moment when you learn something for your own work!). If someone puts a boring pic on 'feedbackplease' I assume that he or she knows it is not his/her greatest pic and wants to hear what could be done better.
It could be a good thing to write a sentence about what kind of feedback you need under those pics you put on the CC-page. Sometimes one has specific issues with a pic and may not want a general feedback.
ponzu Ah, but likes are different. Likes are the social currency of Tookapic and elsewhere. Clicking Like may mean one or more of the following: that you a)like the photo, b)like the author, c)want to encourage the author -- one of my highest "Liked" photo was my very first photo, a screenshot of Tookapic, or d)that you are inviting the author to "Like" you back. A boring, but pretty photo, can be easily (and genuinely) Like-able, but very hard to write anything about by way of constructive critique. "Pretty but boring. I do not regret looking at it." is much harder to make yourself to write than just clicking Like. Now, how boring photos get Stars, that's another question. That really may mean that tastes differ.
Here's an example of a boring photo, I only dare to pick from my own: "Pacific Life" Ten people like me enough to have given it ten Likes. No Stars.
jazzie I don't give an example. That would be rude. But according to me they are generally pics using an everyday-angle, everyday-light, everyday-subject (all at the same time). So that there is nothing amazing, surprising or unexpected about them.
But what I actually intended to do with my above post was just to call for comments for those pics that get no comments even though their creators ask for cc! I started commenting those pics on purpose.
ponzu There are photos that are click magnets. Very, very easy to click Like. Some of them can be very hard to explain why we like them.
Ah, thank you, you are kind. Yes, good light, it was the only reason to take the photo. iPhone does an amazing job with light and color, much better than my Sony. This was taken outside my office while the day was rolling to an end and I still did not have a daily photo and little chance to go out and shoot. No people because some of them already went home and others are still working. They don't normally just hang out outside :)
jazzie
I really didn't want to start a discussion about boring pics. Just about commenting all sorts of pics!
And yes, a series of everyday pics can be great! As you say in this case it might often be the gallery you like, not necessarily every single pic.
ponzu Also I noticed that some Tookapicker automatically submit all their photos for Feedback. Not that there is anything wrong with it. I just don't think we should put the pressure on ourselves to comment on all photos in the feed that don't speak to us.
agnieszka bladzik
didn't you just think for a second that what you consider 'boring' photo it might be something that other person put tought, try and take the photo for a reason and now just would like to improve? and this is why they ask for CC?
I agree with @jazzie it's not discucion on borring photos but on the fact that some people expect CC and there is not many people that is willing to write CC. it's easy on nice shots, but hard to write sth on the photos you may not like, you find they are not in your style etc.
ponzu I think everybody defines "boring" for themselves, and @jazzie was asking herself and us whether we should strive to comment on the photos we, individually, find boring -- without trying to define "boring" to each other. I believe she answered that question in the affirmative, for herself. For me, no, I do not think that people put a lot of thought in many of the photos that make their way into the Feedback feed, as is evident by the honest captions saying this or that is a "streak" photo, and by the fact that some people automatically request feedback for every photo they post.
As far as the "too many photos, too few people to comment on them" problem, I brought up an idea of gamifying the commenting, but it did not get enough traction. The only thing that came out of my suggestion to make critique a bigger part of Tookapic was this thread and this new feature. At least I would like to take some credit for it. Others asked for the same thing.
Paweł Kadysz It can't be done automatically. They have to tag the photo properly.
ponzu Automatically, as in, each one, without thinking too much about it. All photos submitted to Feedback have a large number of Likes, even mediocre ones. If that's a method people use to increase visibility, who am I to stop them. I submitted one of my own and have enjoyed the Likes, and, obviously, the comments I received.
ponzu @Paweł, I don't know if you agree that this is a good idea, and I don't even know if it's doable, but would it be possible to sort the Feedback feed not by the time the photos were uploaded, but by the time the "feedbackplease" tag was applied? The reason I thought of this: I went through my feed looking for what photos I could use feedback on. I picked a pretty old photo. I don't think it has any chance of being seen in the Feedback feed now that I am looking at it. It seems to only work for freshly uploaded photos.
ponzu @Paweł one other observation on how the Feedback feed works. Once I have clicked on a photo (and perhaps commented on it), I am tempted to click on the right arrow to go to the next photo from the Feedback feed. Instead, I get the next photo from the author's feed. This seems counter-intuitive.
katarina97 super, thanks! :D
Tomek Zimnocho it's not easy to give feedback. but if you struggle try these steps
you see the photo. would put this photo on the wall? no. what you like and how can be improved what you don't like so you would put it on the wall without changing it completely?
or simple:
what's positive
how to improve what you don't like.
don't judge, give ideas.
ponzu Seven months later, how is Feedback working out for everybody? I was really looking forward to this feature, but then I was also looking forward to posting a photo a day every day for a year or more.
With a bit of an outsider's perspective, I observe the following trends, not all of them happy news.
1. Not many people are requesting feedback. Feedback is requested by adding #feedbackplease tag to your photo.
2. A few people tend to request feedback on all or most photos they post. While there is nothing wrong with it, it tends to somewhat dull the interest among those willing to give feedback. Maybe one should pick the best (or the most controversial) photo for feedback every so often. Requesting a feedback is not -- or should not be -- a mechanical step for increasing the visibility of your photos. It is an act of asking others to contribute their time and brainpower to the betterment of your photography. Or else, it's an invitation to interaction, which most of us enjoy.
3. Not many people are giving feedback. I have commented on about eight photos and did not see any other comments beside myself, except one generic "good start, welcome to Tookapic". I have asked in the past, and formed my own theories, why people withhold their feedback even when they know that feedback is explicitly requested. Photographers on most sites (my experience is mainly with Flcikr) are divided into roughly three categories. One is made up of those who think of themselves as professionals, who don't have the time to dole out free advice, and who see their opinion as too high gradefor the masses. They will gladly engage in endless word duels and analysis with those they consider to be on their own level, but they don't often find such targets among those who request public feedback.
The second group are those who consider themselves novices, who, while they may have feelings and opinions on the photos they see, don't believe they know the "right" words or have the "right" training to express their thoughts. They dither between being afraid of looking silly, and offending the author with "invalid" critique.
The third group are simply the people who naively assume that critique should be given for free by those whose job it is to give critique. They are invariably surprised when they don't receive any and withdraw, mumbling "this group is dead anyway".
I can therefore summarize the main three deterrents form giving critique as arrogance, fear and cluelessness. Ask yourself which is stopping you and get over it. No one's opinion is too valuable or worthless. The author who asked for feedback will be grateful for any comment at all. Even if he responds defensively, it does not mean he does not value or disagrees with the feedback. It simply means he wants to talk some more.
4. The Feedback feed does not appear to be very well know or prominent on Tookapic. There are few Talks about it. This, and not the arrogance or fear, may explain few requests and fewer feedback given.
What can be done to make requesting and giving feedback a more popular pastime on Tookapic? Perhaps another blog post, maybe a subject of a newsletter email -- I enjoyed receiving those; is it my imagination, or did they stop? If the rankings are still meaningful to anyone, perhaps give extra points for commenting on a photo with #feedbackplease tag?
If you would, please reply with the following bullet points:
- are you aware of #feedbackplease?
- do you use it and how often?
- do you get feedback and is it what you are looking for?
- if you don't give feedback, why not?
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Karolina Oksiędzka Thanks :)!